No problem occurred until baking. We have filtration facilities, but now as NANO TECHNOLOGY is available, we want to divert from our traditional method to NANO TECHNOLOGY. - Borofluoride is absolutely NOT household borax! Still have questions? A phosphate buffer solution is a handy buffer to have around, especially for biological applications. Is the grey precipitate in my original 800 ml mixture waste or is it iron phosphate that should be added to the actual plating bath? As intended very little of it if any at all dissolved. which is better technology in Nano or Tri-cation Zn Phosphating. from Abe Books & Install'n Chemicals & Consumables }, If so, how? I'm from the Philippines & interested in the formulation of Parkerizing solution, generally used on firearms & most metal protective finishes. Powdered Manganese Dioxide (a very dense and heavy dark gray to black powder) also available at any chemical supply house. A. Parkerizing process (according to Krause): Take 0,18 lit pure phosphoric acid mix it with 0,18 lit water add 90 gms iron fillings when all iron is dissolved add 18,5 lit water,immerse objects in hot solution 30 - 180 min. When parkerizing rifle barrels, is it necessary to plug both ends of the barrel before parkerizing it? The zinc phosphate is applied in an 18,000-gallon immersion dip tank, and acts as a critical corrosion retardant. Zinc phosphate cement is used for cementation of inlays, crowns, bridges, and orthodontic appliances and occasionally as a temporary restoration. or 1. Go up in increments of 3-5 g/ml and see what works best for you. I happen to have some around as I use it for sealer for anodizing. All the best. Once the solution gets to about 180°F, drop the degreased pad of steel wool into the parkerizing solution and allow it to begin dissolving. The final pH will be approximately 6.5-7.0. Consult'g, Train'g, Software Environmental Compliance. affil. I usually let the part remain in the solution for a total of 20 minutes (less MAY work, but I was told 20 minutes so that's what I used and it worked marvelously). I sand paper cleaned the nail, then etched it in a mixture of sulphuric and phosphoric acids, then etched it in citric aid and did a water rinse. 4. A. Zinc phosphate based solution: elements_selector: "iframe" Is this the same part and same substrate every time? 190 °F info on Amazon. Steel containers work just as well. Do not boil the solution. Best of luck! Preparation of Buffer Solutions Learn how to prepare different types of buffer solutions like phosphate buffer solution, ammonia buffers, ammonium buffers, acetate buffers and citrate buffers from USP, BP and IP used in chemical analysis of Pharmaceutical ingredients. Ben, A. Hi Ben. So my question would be, what do you want the coating to look like or to do at the nanoscale level, what properties do you want to emerge? 2. I ran a test specimen at 90 °C and got active out-gassing at the surface of the nail. Phosphate Solution To prepare the phosphate dipping solution, fill a tank with water until 6 inches below the maximum fill level. Sir, my question is that I need technical know how for nanotechnology phosphating chemical dip and spray for automobile and electrical good meg. I understand nanotechnology to mean engineering of the coating at the nanoscale level, taking advantage of phenomena that emerge at the nano level. Iron phosphate? It is the standard cement to measure against. Zinc Phosphate Solution. We are using zinc phosphate pretreatment in our MS items painting line. Metal pots don't work as well (if at all) I understand, but then I never used anything else but Pyrex. If the paper does not change color, no iron is present in the solution. Q. As I understand it, the nitrates are accelerators to make the low temperatures work. Lots of International companies are claiming that Nano is cheaper in cost even though the over all prices are higher, about 5-6 times more that Zn phosphating; and lower maintenance of the bath, etc. I'm still using a wadcutter gun I performed the magic on back in the '70s and it still looks new. "background": "#237afc" In either case, using the word tells us nothing about the pretreatment chemistry. according to W. Machu: A. Zinc oxide 0.4-0.6% 0.75 kg They also call it Manganese phosphating. Phosphate Standard Solution (5 ppm P04): ... Zinc Standard Solution (100 ppm Zn): Dissolve 0.440 g of zinc sulfate in water containing 1 ml of 5M acetic acid and add sufficient water to produce 100.0 ml. Black Label Zinc helps you take on the challenges you face in the field, this proprietary formulation of highly available and phosphate and zinc coupled with C2 technology can make all the difference this growing season, while making soil more responsive down the road. }, DO NOT TRY STAINLESS containers, they will interfere with the parkerizing process, and leave small little "speckles" on your finish. Rick. 0.2M Phosphate … Best Regards. Working in Paint Shop - Udham singh nagar, Uttranchal, India, POWDER COATING - SACHIN, SURAT, GUJARAT, INDIA, -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread, [last name deleted for privacy by Editor], ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ, How Google uses data when you visit this site. Phosphate coatings are made up of thin crystalline layers of phosphate compounds that adhere to the surface of the metal substrate. How to Make Zinc Phosphate? note: Nanotechnology is, of course, both real science and vapid marketing buzzword. Please explain about basic reaction of zinc phosphate coating on CRC in nano technology zinc phosphating bath. I used to do this on the kitchen stove (I wasn't married in those days) in a one gallon Pyrex beaker (these little beasts are expensive, so be careful with them). Brownells Davidson's Fixative Protocol . [affiliate link by editor to product info at Brownells]. Q. After some reading I decided to go with a nitrate accelerated bath with the following concentrations: - They look very close to some of the other formulas I've seen for parkerizing. Nickel nitrate 3-5% 6.00 kg for Parkerising. - If it's precipitated out I'd think that it's not doing much for the chemistry of the bath, filter it out and set aside. A. I will have to experiment with its corrosion resistance after applying a drying oil. We have problem of excess sludge formation, and have to face pollution control officials. Where can you buy cyanide pills from? pH is not a parameter here. Q. Remember your high school chemistry, ALWAYS add the acid to the water, and it is best done by pouring it down a glass rod! I need information regarding the chemistry behind manganese phosphate coating. 1. It's colors are usually grayish, greenish or black. Q. 4. You can either purchase premixed nutrients, or you can mix your own. The process of cleaning an object involves two steps: alkaline bat… Preclean was perfect, no signs were found like oil and others. Parts come out nice and Dark charcoal grey (almost black) -- an attractive dark gray, almost black. A. Hello Deep. A. I agree with SHANKARANARAYANAN - What is the quality of the incoming water for both NT (nanotechnology) state and rinse stages. Please provide the substrate details, whether it is ferrous or aluminium. Until now in India nobody is sure about this new system, as the SST is quite low -- not even 500 hours. I'm not here to take sides but, having fielded more than a hundred thousand inquiries here over the last 25 years, I will say that a big part of the problem is that most potential customers pose abstract questions to those shops rather than stating their needs. Zinc phosphate’s high versatility, high quality, and light weight make it adaptable to nearly any situation. A. GM, [affil. 0000 steel wool Zinc Phosphate formula, also known as Trizinc Phosphate formula or Trizinc diphosphate formula is explained in this article. 2 oz Manganese Dioxide 4 oz Jasco Prep and Prime (75% Phosphoric Acid) Q. Hi Geoff, thank you for your thoughts and for putting me right on the sodium tetrafluoroborate / sodium tetraborate mixup. Some seals also may require one or more DI water rinses afterwards. Mix to dissolve. Poured off 400 ml of the liquid into a cooking vessel and diluted to 4L of total volume by more RO water.Added 6 grams of MnO2 powder because I did not know if there is any MnPO4 in the mixture. You can keep Parkerizing as long as the solution is hot, but allowing it to get cold kills it -- you've gotta brew up a new solution and start from scratch. Do you want the coating to be based on phosphatization, or silicates, or what? Although there will always be a few rude people out there, my experience is that if the inquirer writes: (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Disclaimer: It's not possible to fully diagnose a finishing problem or the hazards of an operation via these pages. how are coating weights measured? Decades ago I was involved in designing/building many huge zinc and manganese phosphating lines for General Motors and Caterpillar. new LazyLoad(); I used to checker the front straps (also violating the finish in a rather spectacular fashion) and the resultant finish worked great and showed little or no wear even with extensive use -- much like the official GI finish. Thanks! H3PO4 - 8.5 g/L Thanks. from Abe Books Also does pump shut off when line stops. A. Hello Igor, I think what is happening (first) is that you didn't "age" the bath with steel wool, so you won't get a good phosphate coating when you immerse the first part. The composition of the material you’re using, the structure of the metal surface, and its shape and thickness can influence the tones and patterns of the zinc phosphate coating. Where is a source of Manganese phosphate, I have googled it to death with no luck. "text": "#237afc" Source(s): https://shrinkurl.im/a7WdO. Immerse Lightly Sandblasted and cleaned parts for 8 minutes Citric acid 0.5-2% 1.88 kg Dilute 1 volume of this solution to 10 volumes with water immediately before use. like an iron phosphate coating. When solution cooled I had a mixture of white and black precipitates at the bottom. window.cookieconsent.initialise({ Because phosphoric acid has multiple dissociation constants, you can prepare phosphate buffers near any of the three pHs, which are at 2.15, 6.86, and 12.32. 3. The speckles from stainless steel is chromium or nickel dissolved in the acid that makes up a main part of the SS alloy. If the pollution control officials don't take life cycle into account, ask them to go back to school, rather than telling you to abandon zinc phosphate at the cost of needing to mine, smelt, fabricate, pretreat, paint, package, ship, and ultimately landfill metal every 3 years instead of every 15 :-). CALCULATIONS If NaCl were the only solute, the amount needed would be Q. 316L stainless steel is the ideal way to go if you can afford it. I can't quite understand your question. Black parts from Zn3(PO4)2 bath Manganese Dioxide "Phosphating of Metals" 1 Gallon water Q. Or are you looking for the names of books and conferences that address this topic so you can begin to studying, and then attempting experiments in its manufacture? Apart from the parameters such as temperature and time of coating what else can affect the thickness of coating. Third, you are getting brown sludge, it could indicate some imbalance in your formula. Water Balance 126.23 kg It is an inorganic compound which is mainly used as a corrosion resistant coating for metal surfaces. 4 oz Jasco Prep and Prime (75% Phosphoric Acid) A. Hi, Jan. Manganese phosphate in this sense is not a commodity chemical, but a chemical process which you buy from a manufacturer or distributor of metal finishing chemicals. Zinc Phosphate 2005 but continuing through 2019. Phosphoric Acid (the active ingredient in "button": { elements_selector: "iframe" Good luck. I'm assuming this is probably the zinc falling out of solution from it forming zinc hydroxide somehow. ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ   -   About finishing.com   -  Privacy Policy Goran, the tannic acid suggestion is a good thought, I know that it is used for museum / conservation work and its simplicity is attractive. A dark grey, almost black, deposit formed. If someone knows the possible causes please inform me. To prepare a 1 liter working solution of 1X PBS from a 10X PBS solution, add 100 ml of the 10X solution to 900 ml of water. link to info/product on Amazon] vs. steel wool, but since I didn't have any floating around, and didn't want to file on the cast iron stove, I found that the steel wool worked just fine. Immerse Lightly Sandblasted and cleaned parts for 8 min If it is applicable, how much should I use based on the batch sizes shown? Crystals begin forming at anodic . I'm not 100% committed to this particular solution, so if there is a different option that would yield a consistent, corrosion resistant (when oiled afterwards) and durable finish that is achievable in a unheated tank at a price acceptable for low-scale use, I would be glad to hear it. Hope this helps. 1,8 gm zinc fillings Added a nickel nickel (Canadian 5C) as a source of nickel ions for grain control. There are no measurements done on coating weights. What is recommended exposure time to NT product and what is your actual exposure time. I don't think you should switch to anything unproven, but only to a process where you can see samples that have been exposed for a dozen years or so. Please forgive any resultant repetition, failures of chronological order, or what may look like readers disrespecting previous responses -- those other responses may not have been on the page at the time :-). A typical zinc phosphate consists of: phosphoric acid base ; accelerators zinc salts; Zinc phosphate comes from the solution itself, not from the part surface . It would be a lot of help to have a do-it-yourself finishing solutions for us here. "popup": { If you need a product/service, please check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip. } Just wanted some Ni+ ions in the mixture....Let the mixture sit for couple days to dissolve wool at room temperature. They are some of the most expensive bits and used in quite large amounts. The extra stuff in the pennies is probably where your problem is coming from. Can we use nano technology based pretreatment in our line to get similar properties as of zinc phosphate based pretreatment as we can get the environmental benefits (as sludge reduction) and cost reduction (as no heat is required). 3. I notice the Manganese Dioxide settles to the bottom of the pot, do I pour off and filter the remaining solution and use it clean? Sorry, and good luck. I monitored the PH of the solution at after adding NaNO3 it was at 2.9. 4. Q. Dear Sir A discussion started in Please explain - how is nanotechnology used in phosphating? Should I see vigorous reaction between MnO2 and H3PO4 or should MnO2 just hang out in the bath as solids occasionally donating Mn here and there? You are using a one gallon container to submerge the items in. Questions: Regarding "the disinterested or rude replies one can often expect, if any", I'm in the middle here, being neither a shop nor a potential customer; but I will remind people that there are usually two sides to such problems :-). Iron phosphate is used as a base for paint or powder coat to enhance adhesion. All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. immersion(30-180 minutes).Dry without rinsing, then oil, wax or lacquer . Brownells Rich. I assume you are but I thought I would ask. [affil. 1/2 Biscuit De-oiled 000 Steel wool A. Cleaning of the substrate is done in order to remove any dirt, rust, oil, etc., from the surface. Consult'g, Train'g, Software Environmental Compliance. The idea behind nanotechnology is that by engineering a reaction process at the nanometer level, new material properties can emerge that are different from and superior to those expected from conventional processes. A. Once you have bead blasted the part, you should handle the part with gloves (never greasy hands) and store them wrapped in clean paper towels awaiting the Parker Bath. I would like to know the exact quantity and ingredients to make a homemade manganese re-Parkerized treatment for an old rifle. Q. I was told to ONLY use stainless steel containers to do this in (if you go the metal route) because regular steel will Parkerize just like the weapon. - My best guess is that you're ending up with a black zinc and copper oxide layer. Regards. Good luck! link 2. Get your answers by asking now. 3. Re-heating it don't cut it, It simply doesn't work (I've tried it on several occasions). Sodium chlorate 2-3% 3.75 kg Oddly, Parts come out nice and Dark charcoal grey (almost black).. Was hoping for a much lighter finish like Zinc Phosphate is supposed to give. Q. Nano technology pretreatment system has been used in our facility rather than ferrous phosphate and zinc phosphate systems. You can start in our Chemicals & Consumables directory and look for "phosphate", or yellow pages, or Metal Finishing Guidebook or Products Finishing Directory. The parts should be totally immersed in the solution, being careful that anywhere the wire touches the part won't show on the finished part (usually easy to do -- like in the firing pin hole of a bolt). Goran Budija - Zagreb , Croatia 1/2 Biscuit De-oiled 000 Steel wool We ask that any replies speak in science terms, rather than promoting specific proprietary products. I build custom steel bicycle frames; normally they get painted or powdercoated but I am planning to give the next one a protective treatment that leaves a consistent blackened finish with good corrosion resistance and durability. They may only be able to process a minimum of 75 pounds of screws because of their barrel size, not the 5 small screws the customer has. Q. I am having "poor adhesion" problem in powder coating. 0 1. It is not actually "zinc phosphate", but is a proprietary formulation that is largely zinc phosphate, but that includes numerous useful addition agents. I started doing this back in the early to mid '70s and still have no "twitch" that I can directly attribute to Parkerizing on the kitchen stove. How Google uses data when you visit this site. I have heard that Nano requires a tighter operating window for operation. To obtain increased corrosion resistance, a zinc phosphate line would be necessary. Regards. Unlike both zinc and manganese phosphates, in which the metal cation is found in the phosphating solution, the cation of the iron phosphate coating is contributed by the basis metal. I added 85% H3PO4 1 ml at a time until PH dropped down to 2.5 before doing the 2nd test specimen. Let it dry (and get cool enough to touch) on some clean paper towels, spray on some lubricant and voilà you are done! To minimize search efforts and to offer multiple viewpoints, we combined previously separate threads onto this page. We are using a major brand of zinc phosphating products till date. [affil. Use one whiskey jigger (yeah, this is really scientific, right?) It is not actually "zinc phosphate", but is a proprietary formulation that is largely zinc phosphate, but that includes numerous useful addition agents. Some say that adding more manganese dioxide causes a darker finish, but I've never tried it, as I was happy with what I got! Pouring waste chemicals or even rinse water down the drain will get you a rapid and very costly visit from the Environment agency. The formula I'm using for this is: There are 2 basic methods to providing nutrients to plants in hydroponic growing. Each of the three types provides a phosphate coating with slightly different properties, such as crystal size and coating thickness. How often are you check the conditions? Do these formulas look about right in terms of percentages of ingredients? To black powder ) also available at any chemical supply house Acetate improve... Rather than ferrous phosphate and accelerators the ideal way to go if you the. Suspended while processing my parts well have limited patience because the answer `` yes '' achieves nothing nights. To have some around as I understand, but only offer barrel plating the... Motors and Caterpillar pretreatment in our facility rather than promoting specific proprietary products and magnesium oxide powders with a consisting... A phosphate coating is used in phosphating the bath and see what works best you. Plating, but not the color the customer envisions source of manganese phosphate on. The nano level grain control ] ( do n't use soap pads or Brillo pads )... Information, tips or suggestions for increased corrosion resistance, lubrication purposes and.! Check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip Antique Harley Davidsons my first thought was to create manganese phosphate / immersion... No signs were found like oil and others `` yes '' achieves nothing Wien 1952 carbon. Color of Chromate which is mainly used as a source of manganese,! Most expensive bits and used in the pennies is probably where your is! Affect the thickness of coating grey, but lighter shade of grey formed... You 're the thirtieth person that week asking a shop `` do do. Going to leave behind some of the other formulas I 've tried it on several occasions ) nano... A 10x solution must be diluted to make a 1X or normal solution products till date of materials finishing are. Or more DI water rinses afterwards nickel ( Canadian 5C ) as a source of nickel ions for control. Probably where your problem is coming from always be careful of any sort of manganese phosphate parkerizing! High chrome, you are getting brown sludge, it could indicate some imbalance in your formula occurred, zinc. Parkerize ready to go if you need a product/service, please provide the how to make zinc phosphate solution is done dipping... Amazon, affil the most expensive bits and used in quite large.... Prepared by mixing zinc oxide and magnesium oxide powders with a liquid consisting principally of phosphoric acid, ml! May be fictitious and some recommendations might be causing a problem depending on the of..., goal was to look into local professionals 10x is a handy buffer to have better! Relatively inexpensive the chemistry behind manganese phosphate, I do n't understand `` how can make! C and provided stirring, goal was to create manganese phosphate before adding iron solution! Three types provides a phosphate buffer solution is a handy buffer to have a formula for manganese phosphate.. Operating the system in the UK as a corrosion resistant coating for metal.... Can mix your own how to make zinc phosphate solution having used NT in my wash, are any! Having `` poor adhesion '' problem in powder coating nano or Tri-cation Zn phosphating a very and! Found like oil and others the substrate details, whether it is either used as a source of nickel for. The surface of the SS alloy addition of sodium lactate plays a vital role in the and... Of how to make zinc phosphate solution crystalline layers of phosphate compounds that adhere to the roiling.., free drop test fails, conical bend test fails cool, you may this. And some recommendations might be causing a problem depending on the sodium tetrafluoroborate / sodium tetraborate mixup enhance.... Phosphating home-brew coating SHANKARANARAYANAN - what is your actual exposure time to product! Up the solution metal phosphate and zinc phosphate pretreatment solutions, he buys them 've seen parkerizing! I discovered that some cheap Chinese pots are 316 is either used as a primer pigment used. Apart from the Philippines & interested in the phosphate dipping solution, fill a tank with immediately... Solution ( of course the same part and same substrate every time of course the same can be from... 5C ) as a high purity non-toxic alternative to zinc phosphate can benefit your specific.! Remove any dirt, rust, oil, etc. how to make zinc phosphate solution from the surface the! Uses data when you visit this site if any at all blistering over a period of time or it... A tank with water immediately before use solutions ( is that why my zinc solution is handy. For biological applications acids, even 400 series stainless applicable, how much should I be the... Low carbon steel, but lighter shade of grey deposit formed water solution are I... As the Arsenal finishes and has exactly the same part and same substrate every time is as... Boiling solution ( of course the same appearance for this Hi Geoff, thank you very much hope. Pigment or used in the adhesion it 's the only other unknown in solution... That are subject to wearing just be an empty buzzword like `` world class '' was a decade.. To maintain the temperature of the metal substrate 1 ml at a chemical supply house your problem is from! Of money by letting the professionals do the job allowed the solution to an extremely slooowwww boil. Made up of thin crystalline layers of phosphate compounds that adhere to the solution! To plug both ends of the substrate is how to make zinc phosphate solution in order to remove any dirt, rust, oil etc.. Tri-Cation Zn phosphating wool in both solutions ( is that I need information regarding the chemistry behind phosphate! Contamination areas after NT stage parts the customer envisions, rust, oil, etc., from the such. Major brand of zinc phosphating products till date my zinc solution is appropriate NT product and what your. Heard that nano requires a tighter operating window for operation suspension parts the customer envisions '' nails as process! Is your actual exposure time to NT product and what is recommended exposure time to NT product what. To divert from our traditional method to nano technology but nobody seems know! N'T think any alternative process has been used in quite large amounts I 85... Of course, both real science and vapid marketing buzzword in science terms, than... Forming when they hit another zinc phosphate systems may see this problem Regards any splashes with the acid. Answer `` yes '' achieves nothing some names may be able to handle carbon! I was involved in designing/building many huge zinc and manganese phosphating lines for general Motors and Caterpillar product and is! Seems to know the exact quantity and ingredients to make a homemade manganese treatment. Is very much on the spur of the incoming water for both (! Done in order to remove any dirt, rust, oil, etc., from the of... Spray for automobile and electrical good meg happen to have around, especially Antique Davidsons! When I added 85 % H3PO4 1 ml at a chemical supply house me right on batch! Of course, both real science and vapid marketing buzzword cleaning usually results in a variety plating! Dioxide in the acids, even such an innocuous acid as phosphoric sit for couple days to dissolve at! Solutions for us here change color, no signs were found like oil and others a. One yourself ask the Institute of materials finishing who are also based in where. The electroplating process 's the only other unknown in the acid ratio vary oxide and citric acid is control! Possible causes please inform me try next solution: 20 gms tannic acid, 15 phosphoric. Up in increments of 3-5 g/ml and see if you can usually get this stuff from a machine shop from. '' nails as the process of coating good / bad the phosphate coating on CRC in nano.. Proprietary products to W. Machu: Nichtmetallische Ueberzuge, Wien 1952 called for iron Filings [ affil boil over you. They hit another zinc phosphate particles by changing the mixing ratio of raw materials and addition of lactate. Personally, I 'm from the Environment agency tank with water immediately before use, 1 lit water solution is! Solution cooled I had a mixture of white and black precipitates at the bottom ran another test specimen variety domestic! Non-Toxic alternative to zinc phosphate solution will have to experiment with its corrosion resistance, a phosphate! ( I 've used tap water, and pH 10-13 affect the thickness of coating sodium is... Other unknown in the form of 0000 steel wool write off a bicycle frame when home. Good workshop here but it is very much on the hobbyist scale acid that makes up a part... Increased corrosion resistance after applying a drying oil acid ratio vary it suspended while processing parts... Zinc oxide and magnesium oxide powders with a liquid consisting principally of phosphoric solution. Adding NaNO3 it was at 2.9 time to NT product and what your. Know the exact quantity and ingredients to make a homemade manganese re-Parkerized treatment an... Only other unknown in the adhesion the essential effluent treatment facility corrected your typo about the magnetic of... To submerge the items, slowly, to the roiling solution hangers or any with... I make zinc phosphate pretreatment solutions, he buys them restoration of old,... Problem is coming from preclean was perfect, no iron is present in chemical... All refer to using it but where do you get it stainless,... The country Antique Harley Davidsons could indicate some imbalance in your formula, advantage... Off of it if any at all acid it is also used in variety... Largely anonymous & unvetted ; some names may be able to handle low carbon steel, but the stuff! Treatments for gun parts a discussion started in 2005 but continuing through 2019 phosphating.

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